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A promising step

بدأه خشان خشان · 2012-05-26 02:24 · 29,783 مشاهدة

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#12012-05-26 02:24

I hope Mr Anandajoti, The prominent Indian prosodist, will join our forum to discuss the details of the subject on

anandajoti bhikkhu

Any relevant comment in English is welcome.‎
I hope others concerned will join too, that this page will present numerical prosody on a larger and ‎higher scale.‎
Those willing to register in the forum are welcome. That is achieved by sending a message to ‎
[email][email protected][/email]. ‎
The password will be sent once registration is finished

Relevant links in English
comparative metrics

anandajoti bhikkhu

http://arood.com/vb/forumdisplay.php?f=94‎

http://www.poetrymagnumopus.com/index.php?showtopic=100‎

http://www.poetrymagnumopus.com/index.php?showtopic=859‎

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#22012-05-27 19:14

I left a request for Mr. Luke Prater on:‎
http://lukepraterswordsalad.com/2011/08/15/formication/poetic-meter/#comment-14427‎

He sent the following comment:‎

Hi - you left a comment/link on my poetry site (I use a lot of meter etc). I couldn't find a way to comment on your ‎Google site - but I think the project is excellent. I have one issue with what you say there though: that ‎Western/English meter (which, as you say, is stress-based) doesn't successfully emulate the Greco-Roman ‎quantitive (short-long) metrical system. In many cases, in fact it does. The rhythm of using the most common ‎syllabic feet - iambs (di-DUM) and trochees (DUM-di) - (but not the trisyllabic feet anapaests (di-di-DUM) and ‎dactyls (DUM-di-di) as all three stresses are evenly weighted in terms of rhythm, like triplets in music), are for all ‎intents and purposes also short-LONG and LONG-short, respectively. This is because the rhythm of iambs and ‎trochees is not duple (2/4 in music), but it's of-set, like a horse galloping. What makes a stressed syllable feel ‎stressed? Not just but saying it out louder. The stressed syllable is longer, or has more space after it. Musically, ‎the unstressed syllable is the upbeat, it's half-swallowed, and we are in a triplet rhythm still, NOT a duple one. So ‎an iamb is actually di-DUM-(rest), di-DUM-(rest), rather than di-DUM, di-DUM. In many cases the (rest) will be a ‎continuation of the stressed DUM syllable. So it either feels, or actually is, longer. Musically, rhythmically. It is very ‎close to Classical quantitive meter. Agreed, trisyllabic feet that fill all three beats cannot be. And certainly ‎tetrasyllabic feet, but these are not used anymore except for novelty's sake.
‎
Thus, iambs and trochees feel quantitive and iambs are overwhelmingly the most used metrical foot in ‎Western poetry, where feet are still used.
‎
Does this make any sense?
‎
Interesting topic!
‎
Cheers

Luke Prater

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#32012-05-29 07:30

It does make sense Mr. Prater. Many thanks

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#42012-05-29 13:15

((إباء العرب));56006It does make sense Mr. Prater. Many thanks

‎

Dear Ust. Ibaa
This is the first time I read that iambic and trochee are quantitative.‎
You feel the basically quantitative Arabic and the stress based English ‎meters . ‎
‎1-‎ Does Mr Luke when he speaks of the quantitative nature of iambs ‎and trochees mean quantitative as we feel it in Arabic, or some sort ‎of quantitative that we may not feel. Do you feel quantitative?‎

‎2-‎ ‎ It is to be noted that he differentiated between iambs = 1 2 and ‎trochees 2 1 on one hand and pyrrhic = 11 =(2) , spondees 2 2, ‎anapests 1 1 2 =(2) 2 and dactylic 2 1 1 = 2 (2)‎

I used the Arabic symbol to bring to the awareness of the Arabic ‎reader the role that numerical prosody reveals the similarities and ‎analogies between seemingly two too far away meters. ‎
Iambs = 12 ~ watid majmoo' , trochees = 21~ watid mafrroq both ‎having the odd figure 1‎

All the other feet being even composed of twos ~ sababs lie within ‎the description Arabic khabab

Mr. Lukes description :

but not the trisyllabic feet anapaests (di-di-DUM) ‎and ‎dactyls (DUM-di-di) as all three stresses are evenly weighted in terms of rhythm

‎

Is very profound and important.‎

‎“Evenly weighted in terms of rhythm” attadaffoq alkhababi – in Arabic ‎

That he considers 1 1 2 as trisyllabic , in contrast to Arabic khabab were ‎they are considered (2) 2 just two syllables is a matter of idiom that does not affect the essence .‎

As if English has two parts :‎
A-‎ ‎ Iambic and trochaic overlapping to a crtain degree with quantitative ‎meter like Latin and Arabic
B-‎ ‎ The rest overlapping to a certai degree with syllabic meter like ‎French.‎

How encouraging is numerical prosody to enable one to talk of the ‎meter of languages he does not know.‎

watch

Please listen to these at the end of the link :‎

(Meter (music

Examples of various meter sound samples

sample of how 1/4 meter (help·info) sounds in a tempo of 90bpm.
sample of how 2/4 meter (help·info) sounds in a tempo of 90bpm.
sample of how 3/4 meter (help·info) sounds in a tempo of 90bpm.
sample of how 4/4 meter (help·info) sounds in a tempo of 90bpm.
sample of how 5/8 meter (help·info) sounds in a tempo of 120bpm.

‎‎

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